Posts by Cold Steel

28

The distinction between cult and religion.....

by NoRegrets in

another great article from the ted talks.

opening quote really tells it all: "the distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eliyahu-federman/when-organized-religion-become_b_3996139.html?ir=ted+weekends&ref=topbar.

Cold Steel

If everyone can define cults as they wish, then there can be no consistent definition of the word.

Many religions in their infancy are called "cults" (ancient Christianity for example) because they take an existing religion, add to it and have a charismatic leader, or leaders, who add their interpretations or commentary, thus defining the new "output" religion or sect.

Jesus introduced NEW doctrines in Christianity, and NEW interpretations of existing scripture and prophecy. Many of the Jews, even today, complain that Jesus hijacked Judaism and added his own spin as to what the Messiah should be and do. Armageddon is a good example. According to the prophet Zechariah, the Messiah will be a Savior of his people because he will protect the Jews from their enemies. He would be a political and military leader, roles Jesus has not (as yet) fulfilled. Many Jews expected the Messiah would save them from the Romans. A great force from the North comes upon them and desecrates the Holy of Holies. The Mount of Olives splits in twain and the Jews rush in to meet their Messiah. Unfortunately for them, they didn't understand that the Messiah would also save men from their sins, and that a third temple would first have to be built before the final battle.

Even today, many Jews think Jesus and his followers were a cult. The Romans considered them a cult, especially the intellectual class.

The Jehovah's Witnesses laid their foundations before Israel became a nation. As a result, they completely screwed up the Armageddon prophecies to where Jerusalem and the Jews were "spiritualized" out of existence and replaced by a small, man-made cult created in the United States around the turn of the century (19th Century). Now when JW leadership states -- with a straight face -- that the world's nations will one day declare all-out war against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and that Jehovah will save his people and destroy those wicked, worldly nations, rational people say, "Why would the nations of the earth want to declare war on a Brooklyn publishing company that prints bad Bible translations and small, poorly written religious magazines?"

Ummm...yeah...that makes sense. But the original prophecy of a great gentile power coming out of the north to beseige the city of Jerusalem and the Jewish people make for a slightly better story. Both have been at the center of a raging political and religious controversy that has lasted for millennia. Besides, the scripture says "Jews" and "Jerusalem," and "Mount of Olives." It's the Governing Body that has changed these things to mean "Jehovah's Witnesses" and "Brooklyn" and "Paradise Earth."

So, are the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult or an eccentric modern wacko religion?

I think it can be both.

20

Please Hear My Confession, I lied to all my friends in the Kingdom Hall! Forgiveness needed!

by AuntConnie in

i ask for the forgiveness of all the brothers and sisters who heard me lie and lie and lie about how my husband lost all his weight!

please make room in your heart to forgive me, it's rare i will open up myself to the scrutiny of jehovah's witnesses net message board, i try not to reveal too many things about my life.

i come from a fleshly family that is screwed up, we learned from youth how to use theocratic warfare even with other jehovah's witnesses asking innocent questions.

Cold Steel

My child...I hear your pain, even from the remote depths of the electronic world in which we live. Reading between your lines I could hear you crying out in great big cyber-sobs the guilt and frustration of what you must be going through.

But you must be strong. You must step up to the proverbial plate and pay the utmost farthing for your sin. For God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

You know what that means:

Ice Cream and Drinks

For Everyone...

(On YOU, of Course)!

So now that that is over...just don't ever let it happen again!

And by the way, you're disfellowshiped! Get your stuff and get out!

.

20

What is the biblical justification for says that a creative days is 7000 years ?

by trackregister99 in

hello, what is the biblical proof of that a creative days is 7000 years.

i read in the photodrama that russell says that a creative days is 7000 years.

and in 1965 edition of "make sure of all things" page 134 that was changed from "7000 years" to "about 7000 years".. the bible not says the duration of a creative day.

Cold Steel

Yes, Captain Obvious, you are correct. Where the Mormons differ is that we're willing to wait for the answers. We don't try to stipulate how old Earth is, when Adam was placed in the Garden, how long he was there, whether dinosaurs lived and when. In a revelation to Joseph Smith, he was told: “...in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things—things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof; things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven.” (D&C 101:32-34)

When the scriptures say that God created the earth in seven days and rested (which means he desisted). The word for "day" in scripture means exactly what it means in English. It can mean a 24-hour period, or it can mean an "era" of undetermined time. We believe that when man began, he was an exalted person for a mortal. He did not live in caves or go through a developmental period, but began with an advanced language and had advanced knowledge of God and right and wrong. But he very quickly degenerated into wickedness and became degenerate. How and in what stages this happened will be revealed, but for now we don't have the pieces of the puzzle that are required to have a knowledge of all things.

So many of us are willing to wait. The JWs have always screwed up because they tried to figure out the picture before they had nearly enough pieces.

12

Lunacy or apostasy?

by Separation of Powers in

over the years i have heard some really strange beliefs shared openly with others in the congregation.

one sister, for example, stated that you could not be cremated because then "all your molecules will be spread around and jehovah couldn't put you back together.

" kinda sounds like she got stuck in a nursery rhyme there, a la humpty dumpty.. .

Cold Steel

SoP:One sister, for example, stated that you could not be cremated because then "all your molecules will be spread around and Jehovah couldn't put you back together."

And you guys complain that your meetings are boring?? Sister Stumble most likely was trying to scare the younger members into making an early resolve not to be cremated. (Is there anything against cremation in the Society?) Me, I would have stood up and said of course Jehovah could put you back together...he's God! You might stutter for the rest of eternity, but he could put you back together! Hmmm...that reminds me, I have to ask my evangelical friends if I decide to get cremated, whether I can still burn in Hell?

Anyways, sometimes there are people in the congregation that spread around their wild ideas, ideas that are totally contrary to the "truth" as published by the Watchtower. Yet, nothing, absolutely NOTHING happens to them!

That's because no one's threatened. If they dis the Governing Body, though, the smiles might get a little tight.

The living mate, if they survive Armageddon, will NOT be able to remarry that person. THAT is the "current" light. Now, why is it then that an older sister can totally disregard that light and promote her own belief that she will, IN FACT, be with her husband AFTER the resurrection and nobody says a single thing....

Yeah, well that light may be getting a little dim. Adam and Eve were married by the Lord, thus their marriage was intended to be forever, right? And since Jesus did nothing except return humanity back to a garden environment, and since he intends for them to live as Adam and Eve lived, then how will people replenish the earth? No children like in the pictures? Jesus said that there would be no marriage or giving in marriage in the resurrection. If someone is married BEFORE the resurrection, that's a different tune. Once a person passes through the resurrection that person cannot be married. But Jesus didn't say that people couldn't be married prior to the resurrection.

20

What is the biblical justification for says that a creative days is 7000 years ?

by trackregister99 in

hello, what is the biblical proof of that a creative days is 7000 years.

i read in the photodrama that russell says that a creative days is 7000 years.

and in 1965 edition of "make sure of all things" page 134 that was changed from "7000 years" to "about 7000 years".. the bible not says the duration of a creative day.

Cold Steel

Blondie: From the creation of Adam (beginning of human history) to 1975 was determined to be 6,000 years and then the 1,000 years of the millenial reign of Christ.

But how long was Adam in the Garden before the fall? Technically, Adam and Eve could have been there for years. The beginning of human history should start at the time they were kicked out. Also, God ended His work on the seventh day, not the sixth. Carrying that forward, we have a sixth seal earthquake, then a half hour of silence, and that should throw the history into its seven-thousandth year period. Whether the half hour of silence translates to 21 years (1 day=1,000 years) or is a literal half hour, only the Governing Body knows. (It's one of those "light" things.)

JWFacts: Since 6000 years happens to fall with the timeframe of Watchtower history....

Wow. Was Adam the first editor?

13

CHRISTIANS: Are we meant to identify the last days?

by Zoos in

i've been reading articles from ronald e. frye's, the christian respondent.

he puts forward this understanding of mark 13, mathew 24 and luke 21:.

(1) the destruction of jerusalem is set forth in graphic detail.

Cold Steel

Zoos: I've become content to leave prophesy to history - sort it out later. I was just wondering if Jesus was telling us we HAD to look for sign x,y,z in order to "stay awake," and if so, what part of it is about Jerusalem and what part of it was about the last days or was it all a mishmash?

Prophesy was given to man for a reason, and of course the Lord wants you to understand it as a warning for the future. Remember that he told the apostles that Jerusalem would be destroyed and he told them to stand in holy places. To most Jews, this would be the temple; however, since Jesus predicted that the temple would be destroyed, the “holy places” had to be elsewhere. Undoubtedly, as the time of destruction approached, the apostles received revelation stipulating where they were to go. Since the Christians left Jerusalem and ended up in Pella, that was the holy place designated for them by the Lord.

In today’s world, the scriptures speak about great tribulations and what will happen. It doesn’t help Jehovah's Witnesses because they so badly interpret the prophecies that they become meaningless. They take prophecies that apply to Jerusalem in the latter days and apply them to themselves. Armageddon is a great example of that. In the scriptures, Jerusalem will be attacked by a vastly superior military force led by a man known only as "the Beast." For three and a half years he will rail against the Jews, which John describes as a degenerate people. Defending the Jews are two witnesses, or "prophets," who will preach to the people and use God's power to stave off the Beast. After three and a half years, the Beast will succeed in killing the two prophets. He will leave their bodies in the streets for people to pass by and look at and throughout the region, celebrations will take place because the two prophets that tormented him were dead. Then, three and a half days later, an amazing thing will take place. The two prophets will suddenly reanimate as resurrected beings. As they ascend into heaven, the last thing the Beast sees is a white hot fire that will kill him as he stands on his feet, and it will kill all but a sixth of his vast army. Unbeknownst to him, the Being generating that light will be the returning Jesus Christ, who descends upon the Mount of Olives and appears to the remaining Jews. When they see the wounds in His hands and feet, they will immediately know His identity and go into a state of mouring and worship. In short, they will be converted in a single day.

For background work on these biblical prophecies, I recommend the book, The Islamic Antichrist: The Truth About the Real Nature of the Beast. The author, Joel Richardson, covers most of what will happen just prior to the coming of the Son of Man, and the things that must occur before it is fulfilled, such as the building of the temple and the deception of the Beast. Most importantly, the Beast of Revelation will also be accompanied by a false Jesus or false prophet, and he will have power to do many mighy miracles. Most importantly, they will have power almost exclusively in the Old World, not the Western Hemisphere. My only criticism is that Richardson doesn’t cover the two prophets in Revelation 11. Many Christians believe these two prophets will be Elijah and Moses, or Elijah and Enoch; however, there’s no reason the two witnesses, or prophets, cannot be called and ordained in this dispensation, and I believe they will be ordinary people who will be called of God and ordained to deliver His message to both Jew and Gentile.

God would not include prophecies in the holy writ unless He wanted people to read them and not fear them or be caught unawares when they come to pass.

13

CHRISTIANS: Are we meant to identify the last days?

by Zoos in

i've been reading articles from ronald e. frye's, the christian respondent.

he puts forward this understanding of mark 13, mathew 24 and luke 21:.

(1) the destruction of jerusalem is set forth in graphic detail.

Cold Steel

Jesus used prophecy to show the people that God knew all things from the beginning and to show them the signs of his [second] coming, which all the prophets looked forward to.

The JWs, never content to let a good thing go to waste, decided to poison pen the entire thing by concentrating on the last great battle of the Age. And they ripped it out of the Bible and turned it from a local mideastern battle between Israel and its neighbors to a great battle like Ragnarök, a turbid worldwide affair enrapt with smoke and flame. Like a whirlwind it shall come upon the face on the the entire earth, and when the dust settles, the Jehovah's Witnesses will find themselvess delivered from a wicked generation, whilst the non-members will be dead from flaming sulphur and fire.

It's pretty silly.

11

"New Light" Annual Meeting Oct 2013" Olive Branch Extended To Apostates and Unfaithful JWs.

by AuntConnie in

it's absurd to think jehovah's slave should take heed or listen to advice from the ever growing mob leaving the organization.

still, it's your problem you can't keep pace with our present truth as we continue to evolve.

why should we listen to the the vast army of apostates and evil slaves, they don't want a gente, more humble org, they need to fight fire with fire!

Cold Steel

Aunt Connie did make me wonder how many people would come back, hat in hand, and go back to their old lives if the path was made straight and clear. So what would it take to make you people go back? If the JWs reformed itself, let people question doctrine, read other peoples' religious material, baptize their own children and make weekly meetings truly optional. "We realize our youth are dating and want to have a good time, so meetings are not to be forced on them. It's also an excellent time to foster trust," the Governing Body said in an announcement released earlier today. "As for our elderly members, we encourage them to attend weekly meetings; however, we understand that once the kids are out of the house, they may want to spend more time together." And finally, "We now fully encourage our children to seek higher education as the glory of God is intelligence. We cannot be in the world but not of the world unless we know about the world and the people in it. We also cannot be a light unto the world if our batteries are old, tired and lack vigor. It's good and proper we should occasionally question ourselves, so we urge our elders to show the same sort of compassion towards others as they would themselves. Disfellowshipment as a disciplinary device should only be used to quell outright rebellion where the member shows not the proper respect."

That would be a good step, but would it cause anyone to come back?

38

Don't Allow Common "John and Jane Doe" (spiritually dead) to Corporate Broadcast! Keep us Clean!

by AuntConnie in

life's not so great, i've been sulking after it was annouced, the annual meeting of directors is allowing everyone to view the event!

here comes the congregational corpes "john and jane does" to a meeting they should not be allowed to attend!

jehovah's witnesses enjoy their royalty just like americans do.

Cold Steel

Don't worry about quality meals for the leaders. Is not the hireling deserving of his wages? I've only heard rumors, but the Bethel leadership is going to implement an editorial policy due to the fact that some of Jehovah's Witnesses are confused about whether some of the inconsistent doctrine that appears from time to time in the Society's publications are speculation or "new light" being received and revealed by the Governing Body. The revised editorial policy stipulates that all references to the GB will be printed with capital letters at the beginning of pertinent words and that the Governing Body will henceforth be referred to as authorities, similar to the apostles and prophets of holy writ.

One of Their new pronouncements is that while They receive New Light from Heaven, This is not to be considered to be new canon or binding scripture, nor is the New Light to be considered revelation in the sense that ancient men of Jehovah received it, such as by angels, visions, such as received by John on Patmos and Stephen whilst he was being stoned, nor actual light such as that experienced by Paul. In short, Members of the Governing Board receive "impressions" from the Holy Active Force of God, then it will be dispersed by Them through the Watchtower and Awake! magazines.

Also, Bethel has announced that when attending conferences or visiting Kingdom Halls, no one except elders and overseers should approach Them or speak to Them unless specifically addressed by the individual Member. And if you're notified that you will be introduced to the Member, members of all ranks should wash their hands first with antibacterial soap. If you are sick or running a temperature, you should not shake hands, but bend swiftly at the waist with your arms held against your legs. When shaking hands, members should wait until the Body Member offers you His Hand. And finally, in keeping with the modesty of the GB, it will not be inappropriate to refer to them as, "Your Glory." This reference is, for now, a reference to Jehovah's Glory, which is manifest through his Servants, the Holy Ones of Israel.

Finally members and investigators should not attempt to write or contact GB Members or attempt to use Them as a means of reversing disciplinary actions at lower levels of the food chain, a term that is INAPPROPRIATE and DISRESPECTFUL to describe Jehovah's anointed chain of command.

Please stay tuned for new policies, clarifications and, oh yeah...light.

Ancient GB member.

12

What Does It Take to Be Disfellowshiped For Apostasy?

by Cold Steel in

if one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped?

does attitude have anything to do with it?

or persistance?

Cold Steel

Are you guys saying that when you have legitimate questions, that these discussions culminate in a loyalty question, or questions?

I'm amazed that these loyalty questions so quickly and universally center on the top hierarchal structure of the Society. The important parts of this religion is that in the late 19th Century, a group of Bible students decided that the restoration of biblical Christianity rested on a dedicated study of the Bible, with no outside materials to cause predilections in interpretation. It was only after the students came up with their core doctrines that they began publishing opinions and establishing a self-appointed leadership and man-made religion. In other words, there was no heavenly sign of approval, no angels heralding the restoration of the gospel, no visions, no revelations.

In short, the leadership having total authority in the Society is one of the key components to the belief structure, and if you don't buy into it, you're out. If you tell the elders that you accept the GB as chosen by God and, together, having the status of a modern prophet, how can you help but believe ALL the doctrines? If you question soul sleeping or the Society's bizarre view of Armageddon, all the elders need to do is refer you back to the GB!